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  • Hello everyone

    1. I've seen some pictures of the old Kreiner hive, and what struck me was that the old hives were often stacked 20 boxes high. You can't do regular inspections "from the bottom" if the boxes are stacked that high, can you? Or can you... if you have some mechanism for loading and off-loading the hives?

    Was the old Kreiner hive also inspected from the bottom? How was honey harvested from the old Kreiner hive? Did the old Kreiner hive also come with removeable top-bars?

    2. I'm from the Netherlands and I noticed that the word "kreiner" occurs over 200 times in the Dutch beekeeping magazine archives, but unfortunately it turns out that the word "kreiner" used to be a local word for "Carnica", so most of the articles about "kreiner" are not about the Kreiner hive but about Carnica bees. What was the original relationship between Carnica and Kreiner?

    3. Good luck translating that web site... the doku section alone is 50 000 words (thankfully 20 000 of them are in repeating segments).

    Thanks
    Samuel
    • Hello Samuel,

      Thanks for stopping by. Yes, the translation project is Sisyphean in its scope, which is what initially put me off the idea. But doing things one webpage at a time, there is a certain comfort in not being able to see the forest for the trees. Yes, we should be doing this with CAT software (you can be the first to say "we told you so"), but for now are simply working in the browser. Perhaps once I get to the construction pages I'll change my mind.

      To answer at least one of your questions, theoretically at least you could stack hives, but the modern-day Bienenkiste is larger than the old Krainer hive (as I recall, to somewhat moderate swarming, I think) and thus heavier. For inspections you would have to first unstack them (both the old and the new). It is sometimes advantageous to move the hive off to one side for some operations (e.g. the honey harvest) as the returning flight bees will remain circling at the old location until the hive is returned to its original position, but I would not want to have to lift the hive very high -- this puts you back in the league of lifting off supers full of honey and kind of defeats the "small-scale" intent of the Bienenkiste concept.

      There were no removable top bars in the Krainer hive and the honey comb was cut out (as far as I know/recall). Yes, the terminology can be confusing. In German we have the Kärtner/Krainer/Carnica bee, which as you note, is also the name of the hive, and English adds yet another variant: Carniolan. Sorry, I can't offer you more just now (I'd have to review the history myself), but I've got other work that needs to be completed in the next 13 days...

      Best wishes,

      Kevin
        Kevin M. Pfeiffer - Berlin (Mitglied, Imkerverein Kreuzberg e.V.) - Imkerbuch - Stockwaage - Visitenkarte
      • KMP schrieb am 28.02.2014, 12:33
        Yes, we should be doing this with CAT software (you can be the first to say "we told you so"), but for now are simply working in the browser. Perhaps once I get to the construction pages I'll change my mind.

        My analysis of the content shows that using CAT will provide very little benefit in terms of translation speed (of the 30 000 words in non-repeating segments, only 2000 words are in partially repeating segments). CAT can certainly help to preserve formatting, but that can be handled near the end of the project anyway. The biggest advantage that one might have from CAT is to help maintain consistency of terminology... but even that is not a problem and can be corrected towards the very end of the translation project. So, don't sweat -- the per-page method used at this time is perfectly okay.

        And most of the repetitions are in the headings anyway. Have a look... I created a version for you in which all repeating segments are marked with tripled brackets: http://wikisend.com/download/595518/doku.zip (7 days, password bien234) (note: this version contains formatting loss). Just so that you can see that the current method of translation is perfectly sane.

        For inspections you would have to first unstack them (both the old and the new).

        Well, I suppose they wouldn't be literally stacked, but rather rest inside tight-fitting shelves, so you should be able to take out the bottom one without unstacking the rest, and if this happens inside a bee house, then there is bound to be some kind of pulley system to help lift and lower the boxes. One advantage that I've read about with the stacked Kreiner hives is that hives share the heat.

        Sorry, I can't offer you more just now (I'd have to review the history myself), but I've got other work that needs to be completed in the next 13 days...

        That's okay, I was just wondering about the exact difference between the hives, i.e. whether the Klein hive is radically different from the original hive (i.e. the same box but an entirely different method)... in the same way that many people now practice "Warré" beekeeping that has nothing in common with Warré's methods except for the shape of the hive. I guess my question was meant to be: is this an entirely new concept, or is it simply a modern version of the Kreiner?

        Samuel
        • ugcheleuce schrieb am 28.02.2014, 14:32
          is this an entirely new concept, or is it simply a modern version of the Kreiner?

          Yes and yes? ;-)

          Have you seen this page? http://www.bienenkiste.de/projekt/entwicklung/geschichte/index.html

          It's still in German, but perhaps that is not an obstacle, or GoogleTranslate can give you at least a rough picture. The citation does include dimensions, I believe.

          -Kevin
            Kevin M. Pfeiffer - Berlin (Mitglied, Imkerverein Kreuzberg e.V.) - Imkerbuch - Stockwaage - Visitenkarte